Watch my short

[Alan Gesic]

How is it that every time I come up with a healthy dose of criticism for anyone on this board you all take hissy fits and start behaving like petulant teens or use my comments as an excuse to find your back door out of "the game"?

I stand by my criticisms of your writing Kevin. If anyone else has seen it yet, they'd probably share my views. Also just to spare you the rod for a moment, I found the direction lacking. Does this person aspire to work on some b-list soap such as "Hollyoaks".? The shot choices and edit flow were uninspired. If you're gonna make a short that piques peoples interest for five or six minutes (incidentally an awkward length wasn't it? Didn't you have any more "darlings" to murder?) then you'd better show off all the big guns and all the tricksiest or at least inspired film making skills you have.

I'm fed up of being attacked for having vision - one that is not shared by our pathetic Film Council when stuff like "The Hard Sell" can be made. And I thought the days of the casting couch were over! It was the same when I had my two cents about the discovery. Even though Phillip SWALES (sic) ranted after I'd let loose the juice, I didn't see him getting much support from other hostboard members when his ass was in the sling. Another silent majority here perhaps?

You oughtn't construe that because I haven't made a film yet that I couldn't do it better than you.
If we all felt ready to release sub-par work at the drop of a hat then we'd just basically be w***ing in public. It may feel good my friend but its embarrassing.

When I do make a film I will release it for all you to see: and I will take my criticism like a man.

Watch this space for a link to my forthcoming SELF funded opening shot:

<font color="blue">"The Moon And Jimmy McManus".</font>

[Kev Owens]

You oughtn't construe that because I haven't made a film yet that I couldn't do it better than you.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You 'oughtn't' construe that you can when you haven't. That Alan, is my problem with you.

If you're so confident in your ability then you'd let your future work do the talking and not your big mouth.

When I do make a film I will release it for all you to see: and I will take my criticism like a man.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hahahaha!

(Did I mention that I made a 26-min self funded short before this film?)

[MatthewMN]

Been watching this 'debate' over the last couple of days, thought I might weigh in?

Alan, we all appreciate constructive criticism, but having a go at someone essentially because they?re further up the ladder than you is pretty sad.

Here are some facts:
1. Kev?s made/been involved with [according to his posts] at least 2 short films, you, by your own admission, none.
2. The program guidelines that ?The Hard Sell? were funded/developed under stipulated a 5-7 min short for ?7,000 [that?s a good 70 mins less than Larry Cohen had to play with for ?Phone Booth? but that?s a side issue].
3. Opinions are like arseholes?

If you didn?t like ?The Hard Sell,? fair enough. If you don?t like short films in general even, fair enough. But to write a post which essentially says ?I was never going to like this film? is just mean-spirited and pointless.

It?s pointless to accuse Kev of being a bad writer because he wrote a character you didn?t find sympathetic.

It?s pointless and na?ve to suggest that such a character wouldn?t appeal to ?the audience at large,? just because you/your friends think a certain way [for the record, I turned down the chance to go to uni and don?t have any special love for students].

Basically though, it?s pointless to criticise based on your opinion that the story needed to ?unfurl at its own pace,? especially in light of your comment re: the UKFC, ?I know they have exacting standards as many of my stories I've sent have falled [sic] at the first hedge.? Perhaps this is because the UKFC are pursuing an evil political agenda and your ideas don?t fit their parameters? Perhaps this is because the UKFC?s true purpose is to throttle the life from the UK film industry by funding sub-standard short films and depressing us all? Or perhaps it?s just because you can?t spell? Whatever the reason ? and even if it?s one of the first two ? Kev obviously heard about their initiative, read their guidelines, submitted an idea he felt might work for them and they chose to buy it from him. Anyone with a true film-making drive would have done the same, and no-one in this business turns down a cheque, you included.

As for wanking in public, what have you been doing in your last two posts? ?I can make a better film for less money, I have vision, blah-fucking-blah.? Anyone who feels the need to trumpet their alleged talent so crudely is really the bigger practitioner of exhibitionist onanism.

I take it by writing ?SELF? in capitals you want us all to be impressed, like maybe no-one else has used their own money before and stuck two lens-twiddling fingers up at ?The Man?? Wow Alan, you?re my hero!

In the end, Kev was right, he probably shouldn?t have bothered replying to you in the first place, but you set yourself up for a fall. I?ll keep an eye out for "The Moon And Jimmy McManus."

[Alan Gesic]

What kind of world do you people live in? I live in a democracy and I contribute occasionally to an on-line film forum that has no prescriptions saying that all criticism must be "constructive" or that all members must be handled with kid gloves.

One dissenting voice and Kev O has to call on his firm to come back him up? Who exactly are you Matthew? The mystery man who steps in when someones feelings get bruised? Where have you been as self appointed guardian to the gates of inter personal decency when so many times in the past mean spirit and brutal critique have reigned?

Kev O knows what he's in for when he submits work to this board, credit him with that. If he can take such unctious commentary as "Its like the Shawshank Redemption set in an office!" then he ought to learn to accept good honest criticism regardless of how "spirited" you deem it.

If you read my post more carefully you'll both find that nowhere in it do I say that I could do better with less money and man power - I merely assert that the quality of the "hard sell" could be equalled if we all got the opportunity - but thats the film council for you. Stop putting words in my mouth.

I stand by my comments and I suppose I accept that its riled Kev and his defender Matthew- people like them are fine talking about the concept of criticism and debate as long as it doesn't extend to their own work.

One thing I don't understand though is this: Why latch on to the one sour critique of it when you're being so bigged up by other forumists? Have my comments pricked your conscience? Its about time somebody burst your bubbles and welcomed you to the real world.

Oh and to what "ladder" are you referring? If you're trying to suggest that theres any media "scene" or "career" path for people to aspire to (especially people like you who tell stories like you do or defend the making of them while countless other writers and artists stay ignored) then you're sadly deluded - potty mouth.

A little something stood the risk of dying on this board today: Freedom of expression. You seek to supress the truth, to stymie choice and the opinions of others. This board is not the place for this kind of terrorism, so I send you this simple message that is written in the heart of every freedom loving forum member:

"Nothing can be done against the truth. No matter how we remain in denial."

(Buddha).

[Kev Owens]

no prescriptions saying that all criticism must be "constructive" or that all members must be handled with kid gloves.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nowhere.

Where does it say that we can't respond to unconstructive criticism with our own opinions. Would you prefer me to simply agree with you?

Even if you slated the film, and JUST the film alone, I would've reacted differently. But you seemed to focus your critisism on the fact that this was FUNDED by the film council, as though I'd sacrificed any artisitic merit through signing a deal with them, getting paid and having my film made with a budget is what seems to have prompted this reaction.

You reek of bitterness- and as you're so comfortable with democracy then why are you so surprised that I'm not gonna take in any of your bulshit and dare to answer back?

Alan, this film is up on the eXposure forum also on hostboard, as well as the BBC website- opinions vary on my film, take a look if you like- some people don't like it at all, and they don't as you said, 'handle me with kid gloves'. The difference is they don't have a bitch at my intentions, that because I'm 'accepted' by the film council that I'm some commerical filmmaking brat who can't make a film unless I've got a few grand in my back pocket! That I'm underserving of such a chance because there are people like you out there who should be there instead. You don't know me, and you failed to respond to the fact that I've made a SELF-funded project.

I merely assert that the quality of the "hard sell" could be equalled if we all got the opportunity - but thats the film council for you.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Its about time somebody burst your bubbles and welcomed you to the real world.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hahaha, we'll you should come with us then! Welcome to the real world, where oppotunities aren't given away to any schmuck who SAYS they can do it!. The FC don't owe you a living so stop fucking whining and make that film of yours!

You seek to supress the truth, to stymie choice and the opinions of others. This board is not the place for this kind of terrorism, so I send you this simple message that is written in the heart of every freedom loving forum member:

"Nothing can be done against the truth. No matter how we remain in denial."

(Buddha).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Expression of your truth would be to make a film with no money that far and away outshines the Hard Sell. You cheapened the truth with you whining post about how

" [img]graemlins/cry_smile.gif[/img] the film council never pick me (sniff)- obviously they're wrong and I'm right."

I say YOU are the one in denial. The problem with a forum is the lack of physical contact; eg. Would you have a go at my intentions, character and history as you did to my face? Would you look me in the eye and say; "you didn't deserve that chance?"

I doubt it, you will say otherwise, but I know the truth.

[Becky Sharp]

I have never posted to this forum before, but felt moved to do so in reponse to the vitriolic attack on Kev O by Alan Gesic. I watched The Hard Sell, and while I don't think it's a particularly inspiring piece of film-making, I don't think it merited the slating given by you, Alan. Why does it bother you so much?
In addition, your overblown and somewhat hysterical assertions, in particular 'something stood the chance of dying on the board today - freedom of speech.' for God's sake!
All Kev O did initially was to signpost board members to his film, of which he was probably quite proud, and what does he get? A bucket of stodgy ovewrcooked porridge flung at him! Lighten up Alan, it's - dare I say it - only a film!

[Becky Sharp]

Just read my message back and realised that you said 'freedom of expression' Alan, not 'freedom of speech.' Since you will probably leap on my error with glee in your critical little heart, I have ammended my post.

[mrneutron]

Calm down dear it's only a short film

[Becky Sharp]

Wasn't that what I was saying?

[mrneutron]

Yeah you did but I had to put that in there anyway.